Hi Jian,
I have to say that I found today's discussion with Alain de Botton somewhat charming and quaint, with the ideas that atheists could borrow from religion. Myself, before renouncing religion overall (I call myself a non-theist as I am devoid of any theistic needs and abhor the christian bred stigmas that surround being an "Atheist") I was deeply involved in the church with youth groups and a youth choir which I toured around Ontario and into Michigan with. It was in those days of singing about Christ and God that I started to question the things I was being taught and was singing about, yet even after I had made my personal decisions on what I really believed, I still found much joy in singing in the choirs.
When the arguments come up with believers about how I live with my particular points of view, which is essentially that at the end of it all I am merely worm fodder with a limited legacy to follow me, I generally tell people I just don't have the time for it. I don't have the time in a day to wonder if there could be a omnipotent being trying to direct my actions. I don't have the time to wonder if my actions will get me into the nice post death world or nasty post death world, I am too busy living a full life where the days are short enough as it is. I really just don't buy the idea of a post death world and don't see merit in convincing people that they should live for that. See ya, bye bye, It was nice to meet you and have you play all that nice music for me and break bread and all that but I am done.
As to needing some sort of moral compass to live by, my parents did a pretty good job of teaching me to see right from wrong without having to make me believe it was "God's will". Sure they started off with the whole Santa Claus scene whereby if I am on good behaviour I will get presents at the end of the year. My turning point was seeing God as a Santa for grown ups and just like Santa Claus there's a point in time where we have to recognize the teachings as merely a tool or guideline and that eventually we have to move away from it and essentially "grow up".
When I was with the choir we saw religion from all sides. Even though the choir "Kids for Christ" was largely drawn from members of the United Church, we had members with Catholic and Anglican and Presbyterian backgrounds as well so we played for a variety of congregations including Baptist which was a rather interesting congregation to be alongside.
It was in the baptist church where for the first time I saw people weeping in the church, saying "thank you Jesus" with every second breath and clutching their bibles very close to their hearts, behaviours which I found to be extreme and nearly fanatical. A friend turned and looked at me and I dramatically punched my choir book twice to indicate "bible thumpers" and my buddy nearly lost it during the sermon. He being the son of a United minister was also questioning the teachings of his family/church and I can imagine it was tougher for him than me to work through.
I am certain that this kind of behaviour is not what Alain is suggesting that Atheists or Non-theists need to adopt. Sure I miss the singing I got to do every Sunday but I don't miss the stuffy, sterile and boring old hymns. Sure I miss the sense of community within the church with the nice finger sandwich and orange drink luncheons in the church basements or halls after the service but I don't miss the "who's dressed best for god this week?" air of judgement that surrounds it. I've done pretty well in my life thus far in examining cause & effect in relation to my actions and interactions. I really don't need the pastoral patronisations of what's essentially counselling for the masses, telling me weekly in an uber P.C. manner how to handle situations that come up in my day to day.
I just don't need any of that to feel happy with myself and my life and that I am doing the right things and that I will go to my grave at peace with all I have accomplished or may have left unfinished. If somebody invented a church of atheism or maybe even a weekly atheist group would I attend? Probably not. I mean I can discuss every day life with people at will and don't need to join a group to be able to do it. I don't try to convert people to my way of thinking but I'll definitely explain it to anyone that asks. I merely exist. I breathe. I break bread with good people and the people who need it most. I pour my neighbour's wine glass more full than my own. I am the first to help in the kitchen when the meal someone else made for me is finished.
Maybe those ideals were bred into me through my Christian teachings or maybe it's just a well established sense of right and wrong. "Do unto others as you will have them do unto you" is universal, it's not Christian or Muslim or Buddhist yet while it does exist in those religions the notion belongs to all of us.
So essentially I see atheism as being devoid of any religious trappings. A-theism (atheism) relates to theism as A-sexuality (asexuality) relates to gender with the "A" part indicating an absense. A-theism does not translate to A-morality either. I consider myself to be very moralistic while in some ways anarchistic. I believe in a global brotherhood and sisterhood that can exist without a subscription to any one set of beliefs and that we all deserve to be judged on our treatment of others and not on the frequency of our "worship of God's laws" whoever/whatever that god may be.
So thank you both for having that discussion. It was intriguing and fun but now I will go back to being the heathen that believers in a particular deity might see me as. I am truly not bothered by it unless it diminishes how someone hears my voice and my thoughts and then I have to wonder what their belief is costing them and society overall?
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